In an email to RNS, the father expressed both his confidence in the churchs investigation and his regret for his actions. @ truthseeker00: Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? Written in 1999! Eloquence is a gift from God, but it is only the Holy Spirit working through the folly of proclaiming Christ crucified that ever won a single soul. They are fighting for Hybels. The investigator did not speak to any other volunteers who worked alongside the younger Ortberg. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? Their view of the person is completely undermined by the experience. I can assure you that everyone is reading the comments!!! Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. It isnt even that hard. All so sad! not even then 4 years.?? They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. That is common respect for other people. Final note: Clancys daughter, Rev Clancy, pastors a PC(USA) church. Hinton, whose own father, a former pastor, was convicted of abuse in Pennsylvania, said church leaders are often blinded by friendship when it comes to investigating concerns about the pastor or members of a pastors family. I hope that someone who knows what they are doing is archiving all of the official statements and documents by Hybels and WC. Wise people build their lives around what is eternal and squeeze in what is temporary. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. Hybels was an early god of the mega how to manual. I noticed that my brother would no longer use a name or pronouns to refer to me, Lavery told Religion News Service. Come Lord Jesus! The Devil is destroying yet another church. Whatever the intention, both teach. Hybels used Yahweh (God) for his own desires and celebrity. Our job is to call. Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . I want to make sure I understand you. My guess is that given what we know now, she would not have been running with him. The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. A lot of evangelicals are asking their tribemates to maybe be less political this election season. Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. Willow Creek / Bill Hybels had IT powered by the Ambien Operating System. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. Add a spiritual plastic Jesus fish to the scenario above and its 10x easier to manipulate. I know this sounds harsh but its notbecause I am guilty, too. (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). !) called Give Me That Christian Side Hug went near-viral. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? Why it was Bill Hybels! I hug relatives and near relatives depending on the situation-like somebody is dead. I cannot find the comment so let me Some person, purportedly a woman, is blaming the women for going to Hybels hotel room. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? 1 comment about arms on and off, until mid-2019, according to the spokesperson for the Ortberg family. Nancys story is not outrageous to me. The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. And why on earth is this even a discussion? @ dee: Brad I am the Bride of Christ, the Church, as are Dee and Deb and many others who post here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-hybels-publishers-20180413-story.html. Bingo. People want to see us deal with our sin openly and humbly. Nothing more. I assume you mean well. Shira M. Berkovits, president of Sacred Spaces, an organization that seeks to prevent and respond to sexual abuse and other abuses of power in Jewish communities, said there are plenty of opportunities for volunteer work that do not involve contact with children. It can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by the evil ones well regarded in church. This is exactly what you would expect from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world. As I say if he had a true understanding of what his behavior had done he might give the kind of apology that these women want. Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Same outrage. Posting from East China where these kind of things often, ahem, usually get brushed under the carpet. You were a vulnerable target (especially with children) Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. I did. We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. . But it seems that the true believer would not say, Now I un-repent and un-accept Jesus Christs death and resurrection as the atonement for the sins that I will never be able to pay, but rather, How is my sin like these sins? What is a godly response to this still-unfolding situation? and Is this a church I can keep attending and supporting?. Sounds like wing ding anti Semitic tripe. This is MBA stuff. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. Brad, for better or worse, you are an example of the average WCC person to me. In 2015, Cliffe converted to Christianity after reading an obituary that John Ortberg had written about theologian Dallas Willard. Maybe thats just how he is. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: John Ortberg Family Who are His Parents? (RNS) John Ortberg, popular Christian author and speaker, has resigned as pastor of Menlo Church, a megachurch congregation outside of San Francisco. One more narcissistic, egotistical, Out of control, self-serving man in a position of trust has been stopped in his tracts. In these systems, power is not earned by those who deserve it. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. (Because it was awkward to say no and why would I think a great man of God I had known for so long would be creepy.) We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. As it has been stated in widening circles of social media, under these circumstances (such as: improper investigation, witness discounting/tampering/intemadation, and most important lack of following scriptural guidelines) the Willow Creek 501(c)3 church organization by many credible voices has been deemed/proscribed as no longer a(n) safe or scriptural place to attend or be a part of. @ Deborah: There are many Gods or gods. Buy my books, listen to my sermons, attend my conferences! This lack of balance is perfectly understandable if one understands the nature of broken systems. And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. This has not only damaged women but also affected men, like my husband, who looked up to Bill Hybels as a positive role model. This website contains documentation and information regarding the allegations against John Ortberg and Menlo Church and the subsequent cover-up. My problem with all of this is that I am no fan of or apologist for mega churches or mega stars of any stripe. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. Sigh. I had the same thought about his promotion of women. I was never a member, but many family members were including on the entertainment, I mean worship, team. (Turner declined to be interviewed for this article.) I hope so. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. And my guess is the elders dont know either. There is a reason that big names get away with so much. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. Oh well. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. People we once thought of as reasonable become angry. Hybels was Clintons spiritual advisor. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. Why? Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. Welcome to Ohio. I appreciate every single bit of it. Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. What is the Body of Christ? No quid pro quo to substantiate. Kudos to these two publishers. Other books include; the 2002 Christianity Today Book Award winner If You Want to Walk on Water, Youve Got to Get Out of the Boat. In response, he prayed with the volunteer and sent him on his merry way with a counseling referral. You bet it will get nasty.. She said her son has never expressed any concerns about his coach. Long after no one can remember Willow Creek and the building is long gone, Jesus will still be Lord. Willow Creek needs Jesus and they need to let Him be in control. The logical conclusion of B. Brucker position is that ends justifies the means. normal life stuff. The gospel includes that in spite of what happened God is willing to forgive and restore the sinner in relationship to God. @ okrapod: Go back to JBs April 16 comment. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. Who appointed you besides yourself ? I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/, Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. Shes definitely one of the good ones, and her denomination is one of the way better flavors of Christianity out there. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. The investigator did not speak to any outside group where the volunteer had a role working with children. It works but is it the faith? When his father refused to act, Lavery wrote the initial email to church leaders expressing his concerns, detailing his conversations with his brother and his father, along with his brothers long history of work with children. Id just as soon do away with megas altogether, and I doubt anybody would even try either, but it might be better than placing the popularity of a church on a single person. He describes how the skilled offender plans the way he will abuse the woman from day one. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Not one. I worked for a large pharmaceutical firm. Having Church in your club title does not necessarily mean it is the Bride of Christ. Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. @ Davis and Natasha: @ Barbara Roberts: Things add up all too well, sadly. Good night! Ok, gotcha. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. Is that honest? Tao, who is 18, told RNS in a series of emails that he had seen tweets on social media about his former coach and called them quite unbelievable. A team member for four years, he said he never saw any inappropriate conduct. This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! At which she would perhaps be really smart to think that she could handle it herself without causing trouble in her marriage. Lavery also reveals that his brother onlystoppedworking with children (in November 2019) because Lavery threatened to reveal the truth if he didnt. Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. In general, she said, it would be the far more prudent choice for someone who is attracted to children to stick to those other opportunities. Thus, the cottage industry that often accompanies or is an integral part of their ministry (sic) glides on, and the supposed spiritual.authority who is moving on is positioned to escape consequences and true rebuke. But at church with people you see week after week? I know that unwanted full frontal hugs was a part of abusive pastors manipulations of women in a small rural church. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. He didnt even notify anybody at the church. I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Thanks Erp that is *very* helpful information! (See endnote for explanation of this Christianese.). to this, the source of detailed information about the 1,000+ unreadable emails and Bill Hybels policy of not having email messages archived and his explanation of why comes from the initial Chicago Tribune article. The review by Zero Abuse also uncovered an unrelated incident of sexual misconduct by a staff member at Menlo. He told Lavery that he had shared this secret with their parents and their sister the year before. Agreed. I felt something was amiss with the email story when I first heard about it. I would have probably rolled my eyes at Vonda on stage in 2003 because I despised the commercial entertainment mega world by then. I appreciate my bosses wisdom. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. We have some good news to give to the world. Video screengrab via Focus on the Family. Nothing can really tear down the church, as I think it was Law Prof that said, but people can get pretty mad when their fantasy of church and the people that promote that fantasy are shown to be very imperfect. John Ortberg, the senior pastor at California's Menlo Church, is under fire for allowing his son, John Ortberg III, to work with minors after he knew of his son's . The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. John Ortberg Family. Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. @ Julie: http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. I know men who are capable of hugging without copping a feel. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. He is a married man who shares his romantic relationship with his wife Nancy. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. When I confronted him, most people said I made it up or misunderstood, even though I know they saw him go after others. The woman alleging an affair with Bill said that she was suicidal, both to Leanne and to Bill. PS And could it easily be construed as creating complicity by whoever carried out that demand? No. Ortberg has been a featured speaker at many events, including: In the summer of 2018, Ortberg's son, John III, confessed to him that he was sexually attracted to minors. @ Lydia. Some until their death beds. I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. Im thankful they embraced egalitarianism and led the way with women in leadership. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. I am not surprised at all that it will get ugly There are people that are totaly sold out to seeker sensitive approch. This is being dealt with by the appropriate people and I will follow up when I learn more. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? (Dee), TELL YOUR DOCTOR if you have unlikely but serious side effects of Ambien including: [8] In October 2021, the third-party organization Zero Abuse Project completed an investigation into the matter after interviewing 104 witnesses and reviewing or analyzing more than 500,000 documents.
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